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	<title>Comments on: Farm State Democrats Won&#8217;t Support Climate Bill Without Ethanol Safeguards</title>
	<atom:link href="http://redgreenandblue.org/2009/06/08/farm-state-democrats-wont-support-climate-bill-without-ethanol-safeguards/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://redgreenandblue.org/2009/06/08/farm-state-democrats-wont-support-climate-bill-without-ethanol-safeguards/</link>
	<description>Patriotism that loves our country, our land, and our planet</description>
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		<title>By: Tax Package Changes &#8211; Renewable Energy Programs are Back in Business &#8211; Red, Green, and Blue</title>
		<link>http://redgreenandblue.org/2009/06/08/farm-state-democrats-wont-support-climate-bill-without-ethanol-safeguards/comment-page-1/#comment-153815</link>
		<dc:creator>Tax Package Changes &#8211; Renewable Energy Programs are Back in Business &#8211; Red, Green, and Blue</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Dec 2010 02:12:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redgreenandblue.org/?p=3237#comment-153815</guid>
		<description>[...] never made economic sense without taxpayer handouts – but it made political sense thanks to the clout of farm-state Senators, and thanks to the clout of the Iowa caucuses in the process of selecting a President. But all [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] never made economic sense without taxpayer handouts – but it made political sense thanks to the clout of farm-state Senators, and thanks to the clout of the Iowa caucuses in the process of selecting a President. But all [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Kick Out The Corn &#8211; The End of Ethanol Subsidies? &#8211; Red, Green, and Blue</title>
		<link>http://redgreenandblue.org/2009/06/08/farm-state-democrats-wont-support-climate-bill-without-ethanol-safeguards/comment-page-1/#comment-149715</link>
		<dc:creator>Kick Out The Corn &#8211; The End of Ethanol Subsidies? &#8211; Red, Green, and Blue</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Dec 2010 13:30:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redgreenandblue.org/?p=3237#comment-149715</guid>
		<description>[...] made economic sense without taxpayer handouts &#8211; but it made political sense thanks to the clout of farm-state Senators, and thanks to the clout of the Iowa caucuses in the process of selecting a President. But all that [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] made economic sense without taxpayer handouts &#8211; but it made political sense thanks to the clout of farm-state Senators, and thanks to the clout of the Iowa caucuses in the process of selecting a President. But all that [...]</p>
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		<title>By: The New Choice at the Gas Pump? Corn or More Corn — One Fair World</title>
		<link>http://redgreenandblue.org/2009/06/08/farm-state-democrats-wont-support-climate-bill-without-ethanol-safeguards/comment-page-1/#comment-136974</link>
		<dc:creator>The New Choice at the Gas Pump? Corn or More Corn — One Fair World</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Oct 2010 09:22:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redgreenandblue.org/?p=3237#comment-136974</guid>
		<description>[...] a history of being used as a political tool in America: For instance, many Dems from farm states withheld support for the Waxman-Markey &#8220;American Clean Energy and Security Act&#8221; of 2009 because they [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] a history of being used as a political tool in America: For instance, many Dems from farm states withheld support for the Waxman-Markey &#8220;American Clean Energy and Security Act&#8221; of 2009 because they [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Clarence Errico</title>
		<link>http://redgreenandblue.org/2009/06/08/farm-state-democrats-wont-support-climate-bill-without-ethanol-safeguards/comment-page-1/#comment-98746</link>
		<dc:creator>Clarence Errico</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 May 2010 06:51:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redgreenandblue.org/?p=3237#comment-98746</guid>
		<description>Thanks for a great post, I never thought of it like that before. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for a great post, I never thought of it like that before. </p>
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		<title>By: Angola Aims to Double its Fuel Riches : Red, Green, and Blue</title>
		<link>http://redgreenandblue.org/2009/06/08/farm-state-democrats-wont-support-climate-bill-without-ethanol-safeguards/comment-page-1/#comment-66117</link>
		<dc:creator>Angola Aims to Double its Fuel Riches : Red, Green, and Blue</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Sep 2009 13:51:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redgreenandblue.org/?p=3237#comment-66117</guid>
		<description>[...] has been riven by conflict and it’s more than three decades since the government subsided sugar cane production, but now a 30,000 hectare area of land is to be planted with sugar cane in a dual attempt to [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] has been riven by conflict and it’s more than three decades since the government subsided sugar cane production, but now a 30,000 hectare area of land is to be planted with sugar cane in a dual attempt to [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Dave D</title>
		<link>http://redgreenandblue.org/2009/06/08/farm-state-democrats-wont-support-climate-bill-without-ethanol-safeguards/comment-page-1/#comment-57490</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave D</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jun 2009 06:57:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redgreenandblue.org/?p=3237#comment-57490</guid>
		<description>That would be a reference to Dr James Hansen.  He&#039;s basically taken over the surface station measurement reporting function at NASA.  In fact to be more clear, I&#039;m only referring to his departement or segment of NASA. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That would be a reference to Dr James Hansen.  He&#039;s basically taken over the surface station measurement reporting function at NASA.  In fact to be more clear, I&#039;m only referring to his departement or segment of NASA. </p>
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		<title>By: Timothy B. Hurst</title>
		<link>http://redgreenandblue.org/2009/06/08/farm-state-democrats-wont-support-climate-bill-without-ethanol-safeguards/comment-page-1/#comment-57458</link>
		<dc:creator>Timothy B. Hurst</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Jun 2009 17:37:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redgreenandblue.org/?p=3237#comment-57458</guid>
		<description>&quot;Communistic&quot; NASA? Ummm, huh? </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&quot;Communistic&quot; NASA? Ummm, huh? </p>
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		<title>By: Dave D</title>
		<link>http://redgreenandblue.org/2009/06/08/farm-state-democrats-wont-support-climate-bill-without-ethanol-safeguards/comment-page-1/#comment-57422</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave D</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Jun 2009 09:49:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redgreenandblue.org/?p=3237#comment-57422</guid>
		<description>The more CO2 we can pump into the atmosphere, the more plants will grow - and faster.  The more plants we can grow, the more fuel we can burn and the more CO2 we can put in the air.  This is all a good thing, if we could do more of it, I&#039;d be happier!   
 
Glaciers covering Canada, Russia and China is a bad thing - well, it&#039;s not optimal, anyways. We&#039;ll handle it better in N America than in Europe and Asia. Saving the Planet - really?  You mean saving man kind, the Planet is just fine.  Fear the cold, not the warmth. 
 
The Sun is slowing down.  Even &quot;communistic&quot; NASA has now admitted (after the damn Waxman Markely bill got out of committee and probably can&#039;t be stopped by FACTS) that the 30 years of warming, THAT ENDED 7 YEARS AGO, can now be attributed to increased solar output.  You&#039;d think since we paid for the satelites 32 years ago, they could report to us in a timely fashion!!!  The last seven years of flattening and now cooling is caused by - again, reduced solar output.  Flame on, flame off - any child can tell you what keeps us warm and we have NO CONTROL over it, now can you sleep better? 
 
You can say all you want about &quot;buying gasoline is a sin&quot;, but the truth is in another 5 years, we&#039;ll need all the atmospheric fertilization and any miniscule warming that can possibly be garnered by Greenhouse Gases - unfortunately tripling the CO2 would only raise the Global temperature a fraction of 1 degree - an inconvenient (physics, not environmental &quot;science&quot;)truth indeed! </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The more CO2 we can pump into the atmosphere, the more plants will grow &#8211; and faster.  The more plants we can grow, the more fuel we can burn and the more CO2 we can put in the air.  This is all a good thing, if we could do more of it, I&#039;d be happier!  </p>
<p>Glaciers covering Canada, Russia and China is a bad thing &#8211; well, it&#039;s not optimal, anyways. We&#039;ll handle it better in N America than in Europe and Asia. Saving the Planet &#8211; really?  You mean saving man kind, the Planet is just fine.  Fear the cold, not the warmth.</p>
<p>The Sun is slowing down.  Even &quot;communistic&quot; NASA has now admitted (after the damn Waxman Markely bill got out of committee and probably can&#039;t be stopped by FACTS) that the 30 years of warming, THAT ENDED 7 YEARS AGO, can now be attributed to increased solar output.  You&#039;d think since we paid for the satelites 32 years ago, they could report to us in a timely fashion!!!  The last seven years of flattening and now cooling is caused by &#8211; again, reduced solar output.  Flame on, flame off &#8211; any child can tell you what keeps us warm and we have NO CONTROL over it, now can you sleep better?</p>
<p>You can say all you want about &quot;buying gasoline is a sin&quot;, but the truth is in another 5 years, we&#039;ll need all the atmospheric fertilization and any miniscule warming that can possibly be garnered by Greenhouse Gases &#8211; unfortunately tripling the CO2 would only raise the Global temperature a fraction of 1 degree &#8211; an inconvenient (physics, not environmental &quot;science&quot;)truth indeed! </p>
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		<title>By: Bill_USA</title>
		<link>http://redgreenandblue.org/2009/06/08/farm-state-democrats-wont-support-climate-bill-without-ethanol-safeguards/comment-page-1/#comment-57377</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill_USA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Jun 2009 00:45:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redgreenandblue.org/?p=3237#comment-57377</guid>
		<description>The Farm state democrats are really demanding that the EPA use science as the basis for regulations.  Over 100 PhDs signed a letter to California Governor Schwarzennegar telling him that the investigation into Indirect Land Use Affects of ALL fuels (including oil - ever hear of the Canadian Tar Sands??) is in it&#039;s nascent stages and we do not know enough to start setting regulations based on incomplete data and conclusions (http://www.arb.ca.gov/lists/lcfs-general-ws/28-phd_lcfs_mar09.pdf).

 The California Air Resources Board based a lot of their &quot;reasoning&quot; on a &quot;study&quot; by Searchinger, et al which has been widley critisized by legitimate researchers in this field.  John A. Mathews and Hao Tan, of Macquarie University in Sydney, Australia, take issue with the methodology and assumptions used by Tim Searchinger and others in the study, Use of U.S. Croplands for Biofuels Increases Greenhouse Gases through Emissions from Land Use Change, which was published in February, 2008. (http://blog.25x25.org/?p=404) :

&quot;The two Australian researchers say the Searchinger study “then deliberately ignores possible trade effects, such as a proportion of this ethanol spike being met by imports from countries such as Brazil. It even ignores the congressional cap that was placed on first-generation corn-based ethanol in the United States, which was levied at 15 billion gallons, about half the spike used by Searchinger and his team to come to their conclusions.

“Indeed if you wished to put U.S. ethanol production in the worst possible light, assuming the worst possible set of production conditions guaranteed to give the worst possible ILUC effects, then the assumptions chosen would not be far from those actually presented (without argument or discussion of alternatives) in the Searchinger et al. paper,”


 Mathews and Hao said. Noting the Searchinger paper offers no replicable models and parameters to allow others to check its results, it “is perhaps better described as ideology than as science.&quot;

 Matthews and Hao even questioned the fact that the Journal Science even published the &quot;study&quot; because the authors have not made all data and models available for real researchers to test their results.

   Searchinger is not a trained scientist but a lawyer. 

   The Farm state Dems you refer to just want to be sure that actual science prevails in determining policy at EPA.  

  BTW your statement that &quot;Some research demonstrates that the production of corn ethanol consumes more energy than it yields&quot;  is rediculous.  All the legitimate research shows ethanol returns more energy than is consumed in it&#039;s production.  Check with Michael Wang of the Argonne National Laboratory or the recent peer reviewed research  by the University of Nebraska which shows ethanol reduced GHGs over gasoline by 51%.

For more on EThanol&#039;s energy balance see:
http://www.pacificethanol.net/site/index.php/media/straight_story_article/319/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Farm state democrats are really demanding that the EPA use science as the basis for regulations.  Over 100 PhDs signed a letter to California Governor Schwarzennegar telling him that the investigation into Indirect Land Use Affects of ALL fuels (including oil &#8211; ever hear of the Canadian Tar Sands??) is in it&#8217;s nascent stages and we do not know enough to start setting regulations based on incomplete data and conclusions (<a href="http://www.arb.ca.gov/lists/lcfs-general-ws/28-phd_lcfs_mar09.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.arb.ca.gov/lists/lcfs-general-ws/28-phd_lcfs_mar09.pdf</a>).</p>
<p> The California Air Resources Board based a lot of their &#8220;reasoning&#8221; on a &#8220;study&#8221; by Searchinger, et al which has been widley critisized by legitimate researchers in this field.  John A. Mathews and Hao Tan, of Macquarie University in Sydney, Australia, take issue with the methodology and assumptions used by Tim Searchinger and others in the study, Use of U.S. Croplands for Biofuels Increases Greenhouse Gases through Emissions from Land Use Change, which was published in February, 2008. (<a href="http://blog.25x25.org/?p=404" rel="nofollow">http://blog.25&#215;25.org/?p=404</a>) :</p>
<p>&#8220;The two Australian researchers say the Searchinger study “then deliberately ignores possible trade effects, such as a proportion of this ethanol spike being met by imports from countries such as Brazil. It even ignores the congressional cap that was placed on first-generation corn-based ethanol in the United States, which was levied at 15 billion gallons, about half the spike used by Searchinger and his team to come to their conclusions.</p>
<p>“Indeed if you wished to put U.S. ethanol production in the worst possible light, assuming the worst possible set of production conditions guaranteed to give the worst possible ILUC effects, then the assumptions chosen would not be far from those actually presented (without argument or discussion of alternatives) in the Searchinger et al. paper,”</p>
<p> Mathews and Hao said. Noting the Searchinger paper offers no replicable models and parameters to allow others to check its results, it “is perhaps better described as ideology than as science.&#8221;</p>
<p> Matthews and Hao even questioned the fact that the Journal Science even published the &#8220;study&#8221; because the authors have not made all data and models available for real researchers to test their results.</p>
<p>   Searchinger is not a trained scientist but a lawyer. </p>
<p>   The Farm state Dems you refer to just want to be sure that actual science prevails in determining policy at EPA.  </p>
<p>  BTW your statement that &#8220;Some research demonstrates that the production of corn ethanol consumes more energy than it yields&#8221;  is rediculous.  All the legitimate research shows ethanol returns more energy than is consumed in it&#8217;s production.  Check with Michael Wang of the Argonne National Laboratory or the recent peer reviewed research  by the University of Nebraska which shows ethanol reduced GHGs over gasoline by 51%.</p>
<p>For more on EThanol&#8217;s energy balance see:<br />
<a href="http://www.pacificethanol.net/site/index.php/media/straight_story_article/319/" rel="nofollow">http://www.pacificethanol.net/site/index.php/media/straight_story_article/319/</a></p>
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		<title>By: The Painfully Dumb Science of Republican Representative Todd Akin &#124; Prose Before Hos</title>
		<link>http://redgreenandblue.org/2009/06/08/farm-state-democrats-wont-support-climate-bill-without-ethanol-safeguards/comment-page-1/#comment-57348</link>
		<dc:creator>The Painfully Dumb Science of Republican Representative Todd Akin &#124; Prose Before Hos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Jun 2009 16:05:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redgreenandblue.org/?p=3237#comment-57348</guid>
		<description>[...] Stop, Rep. Akin Argues Against Curbing Emissions: I Don’t Want To Stop The Seasons From Changing, Farm State Democrats Won’t Support Climate Bill Without Ethanol Safeguards, and House climate bill would trim budget [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Stop, Rep. Akin Argues Against Curbing Emissions: I Don’t Want To Stop The Seasons From Changing, Farm State Democrats Won’t Support Climate Bill Without Ethanol Safeguards, and House climate bill would trim budget [...]</p>
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