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	<title>Comments on: Obama Declassifies Spy Satellite Images Revealing Climate Change Devastation Bush Tried to Hide</title>
	<atom:link href="http://redgreenandblue.org/2009/07/28/obama-declassifies-spy-satellite-images-revealing-climate-change-devastation-bush-tried-to-hide/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://redgreenandblue.org/2009/07/28/obama-declassifies-spy-satellite-images-revealing-climate-change-devastation-bush-tried-to-hide/</link>
	<description>Patriotism that loves our country, our land, and our planet</description>
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		<title>By: Dr. K</title>
		<link>http://redgreenandblue.org/2009/07/28/obama-declassifies-spy-satellite-images-revealing-climate-change-devastation-bush-tried-to-hide/comment-page-1/#comment-70365</link>
		<dc:creator>Dr. K</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Oct 2009 18:43:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redgreenandblue.org/?p=3441#comment-70365</guid>
		<description>the pictures are fake.  If you go to google earth you can see photos from the same time frame of each year.  The photos are from digital globe.  The ice is not present in 2004, 5, 6 or 7.   
 
If you know something about the satellite systems, you know you can check the facts.  Someone altered these photos.  Maybe Mr. Obamas folks.   
 
False science rules again.  Did Mr. Gore change these photos? </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>the pictures are fake.  If you go to google earth you can see photos from the same time frame of each year.  The photos are from digital globe.  The ice is not present in 2004, 5, 6 or 7.  </p>
<p>If you know something about the satellite systems, you know you can check the facts.  Someone altered these photos.  Maybe Mr. Obamas folks.  </p>
<p>False science rules again.  Did Mr. Gore change these photos? </p>
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		<title>By: Mean Joe Green # 69: Why Bush Classified the Spy Satellite Images : Red, Green, and Blue</title>
		<link>http://redgreenandblue.org/2009/07/28/obama-declassifies-spy-satellite-images-revealing-climate-change-devastation-bush-tried-to-hide/comment-page-1/#comment-62757</link>
		<dc:creator>Mean Joe Green # 69: Why Bush Classified the Spy Satellite Images : Red, Green, and Blue</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Aug 2009 13:15:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redgreenandblue.org/?p=3441#comment-62757</guid>
		<description>[...] of the images we&#8217;ve seen of the waters in Barrow Alaska don&#8217;t really tell the whole story of why Bush classified these spy satellite [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] of the images we&#8217;ve seen of the waters in Barrow Alaska don&#8217;t really tell the whole story of why Bush classified these spy satellite [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Watts</title>
		<link>http://redgreenandblue.org/2009/07/28/obama-declassifies-spy-satellite-images-revealing-climate-change-devastation-bush-tried-to-hide/comment-page-1/#comment-62464</link>
		<dc:creator>Watts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Aug 2009 17:03:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redgreenandblue.org/?p=3441#comment-62464</guid>
		<description>James, the measurable data on climate change is actually pretty trivially easy to find if you use this magical tool called &quot;Google.&quot; I hate to be acerbic about this, but while a lot of climate science is actually much more complicated than its critics imagine it to be, finding summaries of the results just... isn&#039;t... difficult.

And with all respect, the temperature changes on other planets in our solar system don&#039;t tell us anything about what to expect on our planet. I&#039;m not even sure where that idea got started, but for goodness&#039; sake, just think about it: the orbits are different (both in terms of distance from the sun and eccentricity), the planet tilts are different, and the atmospheric compositions--what the bulk argument relating to &quot;climate change&quot; is over, as you might recall--are completely different.

Having said all that, comparing satellite photographs between two years makes a really great visual, but it doesn&#039;t tell us anything about long-term trends -- and long-term trends are the whole point. Climate change skeptics get rightly dinged for doing things like picking two years and saying &quot;2008 was the coolest year on record since 1999! Global warming is thus disproved!&quot; No, it isn&#039;t, kids. If you pick any two years and draw a straight line between them, you can make it look like we&#039;re all going to be freezing or boiling in 30 years depending on which two years you pick. That just ain&#039;t the way trends work. Well, y&#039;know what? You can&#039;t prove global warming that way, either. Bad science is bad science no matter what point it&#039;s trotted out in favor of.

As I said, it&#039;s not too hard to go to Google to find charts of, y&#039;know, actual long-term trends:

http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/paleo/pubs/ipcc2007/fig614.png

And there&#039;s enough there to argue about. Different scientists come up with different plots. Modeling this stuff is complicated. But even in that chart, you can see that, yeah, they really _are_ taking into account solar radiative forcing. Something that I&#039;ve noticed skeptics of all kinds seem to have trouble believing is that scientists by and large are not stupid people, and the chances are very, very, _very_ low that you, as a layman, even a very well-informed layman, are in fact _not_ seeing something in an afternoon that dozens of scientists studying a given subject for years -- the same scientists who published the very chart you think you&#039;ve found something new in -- somehow missed. (This same logic also casts serious doubt on accusations of scientific fraud and coverup.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>James, the measurable data on climate change is actually pretty trivially easy to find if you use this magical tool called &#8220;Google.&#8221; I hate to be acerbic about this, but while a lot of climate science is actually much more complicated than its critics imagine it to be, finding summaries of the results just&#8230; isn&#8217;t&#8230; difficult.</p>
<p>And with all respect, the temperature changes on other planets in our solar system don&#8217;t tell us anything about what to expect on our planet. I&#8217;m not even sure where that idea got started, but for goodness&#8217; sake, just think about it: the orbits are different (both in terms of distance from the sun and eccentricity), the planet tilts are different, and the atmospheric compositions&#8211;what the bulk argument relating to &#8220;climate change&#8221; is over, as you might recall&#8211;are completely different.</p>
<p>Having said all that, comparing satellite photographs between two years makes a really great visual, but it doesn&#8217;t tell us anything about long-term trends &#8212; and long-term trends are the whole point. Climate change skeptics get rightly dinged for doing things like picking two years and saying &#8220;2008 was the coolest year on record since 1999! Global warming is thus disproved!&#8221; No, it isn&#8217;t, kids. If you pick any two years and draw a straight line between them, you can make it look like we&#8217;re all going to be freezing or boiling in 30 years depending on which two years you pick. That just ain&#8217;t the way trends work. Well, y&#8217;know what? You can&#8217;t prove global warming that way, either. Bad science is bad science no matter what point it&#8217;s trotted out in favor of.</p>
<p>As I said, it&#8217;s not too hard to go to Google to find charts of, y&#8217;know, actual long-term trends:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/paleo/pubs/ipcc2007/fig614.png" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/paleo/pubs/ipcc2007/fig614.png</a></p>
<p>And there&#8217;s enough there to argue about. Different scientists come up with different plots. Modeling this stuff is complicated. But even in that chart, you can see that, yeah, they really _are_ taking into account solar radiative forcing. Something that I&#8217;ve noticed skeptics of all kinds seem to have trouble believing is that scientists by and large are not stupid people, and the chances are very, very, _very_ low that you, as a layman, even a very well-informed layman, are in fact _not_ seeing something in an afternoon that dozens of scientists studying a given subject for years &#8212; the same scientists who published the very chart you think you&#8217;ve found something new in &#8212; somehow missed. (This same logic also casts serious doubt on accusations of scientific fraud and coverup.)</p>
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		<title>By: Gene</title>
		<link>http://redgreenandblue.org/2009/07/28/obama-declassifies-spy-satellite-images-revealing-climate-change-devastation-bush-tried-to-hide/comment-page-1/#comment-62312</link>
		<dc:creator>Gene</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Jul 2009 10:14:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redgreenandblue.org/?p=3441#comment-62312</guid>
		<description>One can never go too far wrong in accusing Bush of being duplicitous. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One can never go too far wrong in accusing Bush of being duplicitous. </p>
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		<title>By: James</title>
		<link>http://redgreenandblue.org/2009/07/28/obama-declassifies-spy-satellite-images-revealing-climate-change-devastation-bush-tried-to-hide/comment-page-1/#comment-62310</link>
		<dc:creator>James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Jul 2009 09:09:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redgreenandblue.org/?p=3441#comment-62310</guid>
		<description>All politics, no science.  Questions of the day. #1 What is the measurable data on temperature change? What is being measured, where and for how long? #2 What are the temperature changes on other planets in our solar system?  Compare and contrast.  What could this say about causes. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All politics, no science.  Questions of the day. #1 What is the measurable data on temperature change? What is being measured, where and for how long? #2 What are the temperature changes on other planets in our solar system?  Compare and contrast.  What could this say about causes. </p>
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		<title>By: Cool Green Science: The Conservation Blog of The Nature Conservancy &#187; Cool Green Morning: Thursday, July 30</title>
		<link>http://redgreenandblue.org/2009/07/28/obama-declassifies-spy-satellite-images-revealing-climate-change-devastation-bush-tried-to-hide/comment-page-1/#comment-62256</link>
		<dc:creator>Cool Green Science: The Conservation Blog of The Nature Conservancy &#187; Cool Green Morning: Thursday, July 30</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Jul 2009 13:44:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redgreenandblue.org/?p=3441#comment-62256</guid>
		<description>[...] For all of you who suspected President Bush of hiding climate change evidence from the public, you were right. Newly declassified images from U.S. spy satellites show ice melt off the coast of Alaska. (Hat-tip: Red Green and Blue.) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] For all of you who suspected President Bush of hiding climate change evidence from the public, you were right. Newly declassified images from U.S. spy satellites show ice melt off the coast of Alaska. (Hat-tip: Red Green and Blue.) [...]</p>
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		<title>By: B</title>
		<link>http://redgreenandblue.org/2009/07/28/obama-declassifies-spy-satellite-images-revealing-climate-change-devastation-bush-tried-to-hide/comment-page-1/#comment-62217</link>
		<dc:creator>B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Jul 2009 08:25:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redgreenandblue.org/?p=3441#comment-62217</guid>
		<description>This is lame... One year of difference does not make a trend. The change in the image is stark, but note that the 2008-2009 winter had the fastest accumulation of ice in recorded history.  A fact that conservatives use to say that there is no climate change.  Neither assertion is good science. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is lame&#8230; One year of difference does not make a trend. The change in the image is stark, but note that the 2008-2009 winter had the fastest accumulation of ice in recorded history.  A fact that conservatives use to say that there is no climate change.  Neither assertion is good science. </p>
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		<title>By: eric</title>
		<link>http://redgreenandblue.org/2009/07/28/obama-declassifies-spy-satellite-images-revealing-climate-change-devastation-bush-tried-to-hide/comment-page-1/#comment-62193</link>
		<dc:creator>eric</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Jul 2009 21:12:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redgreenandblue.org/?p=3441#comment-62193</guid>
		<description>Photoshop is an amazing tool. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Photoshop is an amazing tool. </p>
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